An authority on leadership studies talks about working on Capitol Hill, the leadership skills of various U.S. presidents, and his thoughts on what makes a good leader.
James MacGregor Burns
Featured Leadership Topics
Communicate Effectively
“I can’t imagine anyone being an effective leader who could not communicate.”
Description of the video:
Scarpino: I read an interview that you did with the Boston Globe. I’m sure you’ve done a lot of interviews, but I like this one—October 15, 2000. And you said in that interview, you said, “Conflict is the key to great leadership. Both Teddy Roosevelt and FDR were able to make the enemy into such demons that they created a conflict situation that they exploited.” Why do you think that conflict is an important part of leadership?
Burns: Because conflict mobilizes followers. They’re mobilized because they feel strongly. The leader emphasizes the conflict. FDR says, I, what was his quote? I forgot. “They hate me, and I welcome their hatred.” You can’t get more down to earth on conflict than that. He was glorying in the conflict, and I think, by the way, this may be a problem with Obama. I don’t think he, you know, he’s such a nice guy it seems and accommodating and trying to bring everybody together and working with the Republicans and so on. I don’t think he realizes that the one way you mobilize people is simply on the basis of conflict. So I think conflict is absolutely at the heart of democratic politics, a small d, and in a way, we don’t have enough of it, probably not too much.
Scarpino: So you think maybe that the recent trend in the last 20 years or so to run toward the center is not effective leadership?
Burns: That’s right. And I think it goes back to the Carter question that came up and you asked, that he was operating on the moderate side of the Democratic Party, whereas he should have been on the militant side of the Democratic Party. And again, getting back to Obama, that he’s, that in trying to keep this ungainly bunch of people together, he is trying so much to keep them that he will lose some of the dynamism that conflict involves, and he’s going to have tough opposition when he runs again. And I think at that point it will be interesting to see whether he can reach down and mobilize the people the way FDR did in ‘36.
Influences and Impacts
“I think the overall impact—if I had to point out one thing that developed me as a leader in the broader sense, simply of involvement, not necessarily technical leadership questions, but simply involvement—Williams College made the difference.”
Description of the video:
Scarpino: I read an interview that you did with the Boston Globe. I’m sure you’ve done a lot of interviews, but I like this one—October 15, 2000. And you said in that interview, you said, “Conflict is the key to great leadership. Both Teddy Roosevelt and FDR were able to make the enemy into such demons that they created a conflict situation that they exploited.” Why do you think that conflict is an important part of leadership?
Burns: Because conflict mobilizes followers. They’re mobilized because they feel strongly. The leader emphasizes the conflict. FDR says, I, what was his quote? I forgot. “They hate me, and I welcome their hatred.” You can’t get more down to earth on conflict than that. He was glorying in the conflict, and I think, by the way, this may be a problem with Obama. I don’t think he, you know, he’s such a nice guy it seems and accommodating and trying to bring everybody together and working with the Republicans and so on. I don’t think he realizes that the one way you mobilize people is simply on the basis of conflict. So I think conflict is absolutely at the heart of democratic politics, a small d, and in a way, we don’t have enough of it, probably not too much.
Scarpino: So you think maybe that the recent trend in the last 20 years or so to run toward the center is not effective leadership?
Burns: That’s right. And I think it goes back to the Carter question that came up and you asked, that he was operating on the moderate side of the Democratic Party, whereas he should have been on the militant side of the Democratic Party. And again, getting back to Obama, that he’s, that in trying to keep this ungainly bunch of people together, he is trying so much to keep them that he will lose some of the dynamism that conflict involves, and he’s going to have tough opposition when he runs again. And I think at that point it will be interesting to see whether he can reach down and mobilize the people the way FDR did in ‘36.
Resolve Conflicts and Crisis
“[C]onflict mobilizes followers.”
Description of the video:
Scarpino: I read an interview that you did with the Boston Globe. I’m sure you’ve done a lot of interviews, but I like this one—October 15, 2000. And you said in that interview, you said, “Conflict is the key to great leadership. Both Teddy Roosevelt and FDR were able to make the enemy into such demons that they created a conflict situation that they exploited.” Why do you think that conflict is an important part of leadership?
Burns: Because conflict mobilizes followers. They’re mobilized because they feel strongly. The leader emphasizes the conflict. FDR says, I, what was his quote? I forgot. “They hate me, and I welcome their hatred.” You can’t get more down to earth on conflict than that. He was glorying in the conflict, and I think, by the way, this may be a problem with Obama. I don’t think he, you know, he’s such a nice guy it seems and accommodating and trying to bring everybody together and working with the Republicans and so on. I don’t think he realizes that the one way you mobilize people is simply on the basis of conflict. So I think conflict is absolutely at the heart of democratic politics, a small d, and in a way, we don’t have enough of it, probably not too much.
Scarpino: So you think maybe that the recent trend in the last 20 years or so to run toward the center is not effective leadership?
Burns: That’s right. And I think it goes back to the Carter question that came up and you asked, that he was operating on the moderate side of the Democratic Party, whereas he should have been on the militant side of the Democratic Party. And again, getting back to Obama, that he’s, that in trying to keep this ungainly bunch of people together, he is trying so much to keep them that he will lose some of the dynamism that conflict involves, and he’s going to have tough opposition when he runs again. And I think at that point it will be interesting to see whether he can reach down and mobilize the people the way FDR did in ‘36.
About James MacGregor Burns
James MacGregor Burns earned his Ph.D. in political science from Harvard University in 1947. He also attended the London School of Economics. Burns taught at Williams College for his entire career and in 2009, was Woodrow Wilson Professor (emeritus) of Government.
Burns was a distinguished scholar of American politics and presidents and of leadership. His first book was Congress on Trial: The Legislative Process and the Administrative State (1966). ;Leadership (1978) is a seminal work in the field of leadership studies. He coined the theory of transformational leadership—that which delivers true value, integrity, and trust. Burns had a profound impact on the study of leadership, including but not limited to the James MacGregor Burns Academy of Leadership at the University of Maryland.
Highlights of Burns’s remarkable scholarly career include Dead Center: Clinton-Gore Leadership and the Perils of Moderation (with Georgia Sorenson, 1999), The Three Roosevelts: Patrician Leaders who Transformed America (with Susan Dunn, 2001), Running Alone: Presidential Leadership from JFK to Bush II (2007), and Packing the Court: The Rise of Judicial Power and the Coming Crisis of the Supreme Court(2009).
Burns won the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award for Roosevelt: the Lion and the Fox (1956) and Roosevelt: Soldier of Freedom (1970). He was a recipient of the International Leadership Association Lifetime Achievement Award. Burns died in July 2014.
Explore the complete oral history of James MacGregor BurnsLeaders Are Readers
Books I Recommend
- Southern Politics in State and Nation
—by V.O. Key Jr.
Non-Fiction, Politics
